Curse

faraaz · Jan 20, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i charge headfirst into melee and punch buttons until shit die.

So you dont bother pulling, pre-protting, or all that stuff I'm guessing. Okay, most warriors are leroy jenkins' anyway.

Quote:

the mobius strike build with crit agility effectively turns them into pve warriors.

Actually, it makes them BETTER than warriors. I've never questioned the killing potential of Warriors, but here you are just begging to be corrected. Crit Agility is an enchant based IAS which gives +armor AND +33% IAS, which is better than anything a Warrior has. All their IAS's have their downsides (flail's slowing you down, flurry's reduced damage etc etc), short durations (compared to crit agility, which can last perpetually given you have enough enemies around) etc.

Moebius Strike + Death Blossom is AoE armor ignoring damage ad infinitum as long as the target you are wailing on is alive (which isnt for long). Warriors on the other hand, arent that great with the AoE damage (earth shaker doesnt do ~90 armor ignoring damage to everything every 2 seconds, so no, doesnt count).

Warriors can probably come close to equalling this with heavy investment in scan, BUH, Dragon Slash spam..but that's single target!

Again, in case you missed it the first 4 times I said this, I'm not knocking a Warrior's ability to kill. I'm just saying Sin's do it better.

Quote:

anyone with a different opinion from me is in denial.

Fixed that for you.

Tyla · Jan 20, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Crit Agility is an enchant based IAS which gives +armor AND +33% IAS, which is better than anything a Warrior has.

This is essentially Flail on a Warrior that is much more strippable and brings an Assassins' armour to the level of a Warriors. What's your point?

Quote:

All their IAS's have their downsides (flail's slowing you down, flurry's reduced damage etc etc), short durations (compared to crit agility, which can last perpetually given you have enough enemies around) etc.

You tried Deep Freeze for speed problems (all enemies have IMS in HM anyway) or just using this wonderous thing called "knocking enemies down"?

Quote:

Moebius Strike + Death Blossom is AoE armor ignoring damage ad infinitum as long as the target you are wailing on is alive (which isnt for long). Warriors on the other hand, arent that great with the AoE damage (earth shaker doesnt do ~90 armor ignoring damage to everything every 2 seconds, so no, doesnt count).

Earth Shaker is a skill that shuts down, Assassins are reliant on skill combinations which are easily disruptable under the right conditions in PvE.

Quote:

Warriors can probably come close to equalling this with heavy investment in scan, BUH, Dragon Slash spam..but that's single target!

[whirlwind attack]

Oh look, instantly charged with D-Slash and can be buffed far beyond the damage potential of Death Blossom, without the requirement of a combination of skills!

moriz · Jan 20, 2009, 10:43 PM // 22:43

[dismember][triple chop][cyclone axe][whirlwind attack][flail][enraging charge]["save yourselves!"][rez]

let heroes worry about protting and physical assists... which is how you should play with your assassin also.

anyways, the need for preprotting and careful pulling disappeared with the advent of heroes. actually let me rephrase: the need for preprotting and careful pulling disappeared with the advent of heroes controlled by intelligent people. with no need for preprotting and careful pulling with very few exceptions, why should i bother with those things? of course, those who can't set up their heroes/hench properly should still do so, unless they just like to make life more annoying for themselves.

Windf0rce · Jan 21, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Assassins and Warriors are both very good and capable at PvE, it is hard to point a clear winner so just pick whatever you think looks better...

MY PERSONAL OPINION is that Assassins are more fun and versatile overall. The attack chains are extremely fun. Moebius/DB+Critical Agi is the most fun I've ever had dealing damage in GW; better than Elementalist, more spammable. Monsters are pretty dumb and won't disrupt or attack you much; just let your minion master's minions and hench/hero get aggro, then you go in and destroy everything (i.e. you don't want to be the one taking the initial wave of damage/hex/conditions/melee hate).

If you get bored, grab a Scythe, or a Bow, and attack stuff... There are also some farming and damage PvE builds with spells/Assassin's Promise that you can easily run due to having 4 pips of energy regen while Warriors having only 2, which limits their options.

Warriors have better armor and better shutdown/defense options (Earthshaker, SY!, etc), while sins are indeed more fragile. I however never felt the need for more defense, and I think sins' AoE-damage-spam is easier to apply. I like having the good AoE, it's a fair price to pay for the lower armor and lesser ability to bring utility/KDs.

Lastly I think male Assassins look far better (fit!) than male Wars (chubby fat legs...)... so do their armors... Where the opposite is true for females... Wars looking prettier and female sins looking a little too thin... hehe.

Again personal opinion. Either of the classes are about the best damage dealers around. If you have a War already, keep him, just change the bar to more offense and less self defense.

moriz · Jan 24, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

if you can get away with it (and the current setups with heroes/pve only skills do allow you to do so), this is the most effective way to pve with melee.

Thargor · Jan 24, 2009, 06:22 PM // 18:22

A whole lot of BS in this thread to answer a simple question.

It all comes down to personal preference.
I have a PvE Warrior and a PvE Sin. I love playing my Warrior, I have beat every elite area, every quest, misson, everything on her.
I love farming on my Sin, but I can not stand playing the sin for anything but farming. Does this make the sin inferior to the warrior? No, it just means I like the warrior better.

You should make both and learn to play them, then decide for YOURSELF what you like better.

Forgotton200 · Jan 24, 2009, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Whenever I play HM with my necromancer and want to group with real player, I prefer having a warrior on my team as priority. If I can't find any, I'll settle for a assassin.

Lusciious · Feb 06, 2009, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Overview of Warriors - cool looking ( looks ) , nice weapons / armors , good in PvE , exceptionally good in pvp if you're using primal rage , able to farm pretty well , has the ability to run to maps pretty easily too, lots of variants ( swords , daggers , hammers , axe , spear , scythe etc. )

Overview of Assassins - Not really cool looking , lovely daggers / armor , very good in PvE ( Moebius Strike + Death Blossom Spam ) , very good spiker in PvP , Very good Farmer ( Shadow form ) , Very good runner ( Shadow Form ) , not many variants ( bows , axes , hammers , daggers , scythes )

all these are based on my opinion , i've decided on an assassin than a warrior , now its your decision

MasterSasori · Feb 06, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Play both. Different styles of playing.

But if you want farming - go Sin.

qvtkc · Feb 09, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Play both. Different styles of playing.

This is a wise man

I mean you don't go "should I make an elementalist or a necromancer", do you?

Issac · Feb 16, 2009, 02:39 AM // 02:39

They need to make a "Knight" class, make it a combination of a Warrior and Assassin.

But yeah both have different play styles as stated above. Their my top 2 classes.

Lusciious · Feb 25, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

If you like PvP, go with a warrior since high end pvp e.g. GvG wants Warriors since warriors have more utility than assassin gankers.

If you like PvE, go with assassins since assassin are number 1 farmers, [death blossom] + [Moebius Strike] = slices through PvE like a Knife slicing through melted butter.

D A R K S O I F O N · Mar 06, 2009, 10:01 PM // 22:01

It depends on what you want to do.... like are you only going to use this charecter for pve only or are you going to do ha / gvg / hb/ ..... {pvp} if your doing pvp go warrior. Alot of players are searching for exp warriors and warriors that know what they are doing. If ur doing pve go assasin.

Vehemence · Mar 07, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

My reason to choose warrior over assassin are higher armor and knockdowns. For farming, definitely assassin.

awry · Mar 23, 2009, 02:02 AM // 02:02

sin by far. Want to make money farming? Shadow form. Want to kill stuff? Crtical agility. Want to use discord way to max effect? Use assassin's promise. Hell you can go a/w and spam save yourself w/ locust's fury on daggers

Rhamia Darigaz · Mar 23, 2009, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

As for Dragon Slash/SY!, if you absolutely need SY to beat GW, you are "baed"er than I ever could be.

how has only like 1 other person ripped on this blatant hypocrisy?
warriors might be able to kill things but that's irrelevant because cryway with SF sins is faster? ok, lolpve.
SY is the best party defense in pve but if you choose to use the best skills in the game you "absolutely need [them] to beat GW" and are therefore baed? but i imagine using the optimal tank n spank build (cryway) doesn't make you baed, it makes you smart for using LOD honor to become l33t by doing pve faster than other people? no.

tl;dr version:
I AM WARRIOR
ASSASSIN IS PIG
DO YOU WANT A LACK OF UTILITY?
DO YOU WANT A EASILY DISRUPTED?
ASSASSIN IS PIG DISGUSTING
WARRIOR IS A MURDERER
THAT'S HIS JOB

faraaz · Mar 23, 2009, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

how has only like 1 other person ripped on this blatant hypocrisy?
warriors might be able to kill things but that's irrelevant because cryway with SF sins is faster? ok, lolpve.
SY is the best party defense in pve but if you choose to use the best skills in the game you "absolutely need [them] to beat GW" and are therefore baed? but i imagine using the optimal tank n spank build (cryway) doesn't make you baed, it makes you smart for using LOD honor to become l33t by doing pve faster than other people? no.

tl;dr version:
I AM WARRIOR
ASSASSIN IS PIG
DO YOU WANT A LACK OF UTILITY?
DO YOU WANT A EASILY DISRUPTED?
ASSASSIN IS PIG DISGUSTING
WARRIOR IS A MURDERER
THAT'S HIS JOB

When I read your post, I lol'd.

See, here's the thing...tank n spank doesnt work for regular PvE, like vanquish and what not.

[build;OwpiMypMtIWDKDq/8WCgxcBdBA] - sin

Heros:
[build;OAhkUwG4hGKUMDbgdgC4ujlQiQyF]
[build;OANDUslfOxsqAaQpWPCIQNZC]
[build;OAhkUoG4hFuTMDRkxkmN7h548iB]

I use something like that most of the time, and I've never needed SY! in HM.

Lets go over what I said again...

Quote:

As for Dragon Slash/SY!, if you absolutely need SY to beat GW, you are "baed"er than I ever could be.

If you ABSOLUTELY need it, (i.e you absolutely cannot complete missions, vanquishes...things like that) without SY!, you are baed. Why? Possible reasons:

1 -> Your playstyle is poor.
2 ->You aggro a lot.
3 ->You dont have efficient builds which allow you to kill fast.

Clinging to the +100 AL like a crutch, because SY! is just as overpowered as [shadow form], [protective spirit] + [spirit bond], [cry of pain], etc etc etc, is WORSE in fact, than the Shadow Form Tank n Spank you so despise.

Here's why.

SHADOW FORM + CRYWAY TANK N SPANK IS USED IN STUFF LIKE FOW SC, DOA & URGOZ MAYBE. BUT SY! IS ABUSED EVERYWHERE BY PEOPLE. IN NORMAL MODE QUESTS, IN MISSIONS, EVERYWHERE.

This is an issue because it is promoting a style of play where, without SY! (and more often than not [there's nothing to fear!]), players are left incapable of doing simple things for themselves. I speak of this from experience based on my interactions with some players in my old alliance.

And finally, although I've wasted quite a bit of time explaining why you are "baed" if you absolutely need it, I dont expect a rational response from you because you are making personal attacks on my guild & are making the assumption that all I can do in PvE is cryway. =]

Rhamia Darigaz · Mar 23, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

When I read your post, I lol'd.

See, here's the thing...tank n spank doesnt work for regular PvE, like vanquish and what not.

[build;OwpiMypMtIWDKDq/8WCgxcBdBA] - sin

Heros:
[build;OAhkUwG4hGKUMDbgdgC4ujlQiQyF]
[build;OANDUslfOxsqAaQpWPCIQNZC]
[build;OAhkUoG4hFuTMDRkxkmN7h548iB]

I use something like that most of the time, and I've never needed SY! in HM.

Lets go over what I said again...

If you ABSOLUTELY need it, (i.e you absolutely cannot complete missions, vanquishes...things like that) without SY!, you are baed. Why? Possible reasons:

1 -> Your playstyle is poor.
2 ->You aggro a lot.
3 ->You dont have efficient builds which allow you to kill fast.

Clinging to the +100 AL like a crutch, because SY! is just as overpowered as [shadow form], [protective spirit] + [spirit bond], [cry of pain], etc etc etc, is WORSE in fact, than the Shadow Form Tank n Spank you so despise.

Here's why.

SHADOW FORM + CRYWAY TANK N SPANK IS USED IN STUFF LIKE FOW SC, DOA & URGOZ MAYBE. BUT SY! IS ABUSED EVERYWHERE BY PEOPLE. IN NORMAL MODE QUESTS, IN MISSIONS, EVERYWHERE.

This is an issue because it is promoting a style of play where, without SY! (and more often than not [there's nothing to fear!]), players are left incapable of doing simple things for themselves. I speak of this from experience based on my interactions with some players in my old alliance.

And finally, although I've wasted quite a bit of time explaining why you are "baed" if you absolutely need it, I dont expect a rational response from you because you are making personal attacks on my guild & are making the assumption that all I can do in PvE is cryway. =]

none of that refutes the point in my post. where you use the builds is irrelevant. whoever posted the SY build posted it as an optimal warrior build. you assumed people who run it might ABSOLUTELY need SY and are therefore baed, while at the same time arguing that sins>warriors because they are more useful in optimal farming builds. why not also assume that people who run those farming builds ABSOLUTELY need cryway to beat those areas and are therefore also bad?
the truth is running either build does not mean you absolutely need it, it means you want to run the optimal build for whatever it is you're doing. for vanqing on a war, that's an SY build. for farming whatever area, that's cryway.
for some reason you're imagining that SY is more conductive of bad play than cryway because it is used in normal gameplay rather than in speed farms. where they're used is irrelevant, it's all pve and playing either of them anywhere will have the same effect on the players if they aren't good enough to already know that that isn't what guild wars pvp is like - i say pvp because that is in fact what guild wars pve is like; if you're good at cryway or SY you're good at a pve game that allows you to use cryway or SY. i agree that SY can hinder bad players from developing into better players, but cryway isn't any better. and that's why promoting cryway as an optimal build that anyone should use if their goal is to quickly do something which is most quickly completed by using cryway while at the same time saying that people who use SY to quickly complete a task which is most quickly completed by using SY are bad because they ABSOLUTELY need it is hypocritical. <--in after run on sentence.
and i'm allowed to make fun of LOD because everything i said about them is true. you wouldn't be offended by the truth, now, would you?

p.s. no, i'm never gonna proofread that pile of words i just wrote so if you, like myself, can't read it then too bad for us.

p.p.s tl;dr: as long as cryway and SY are part of guild wars pve two things will be true:
1)being good at them will = being good at pve. you can't suggest that they contribute to poor playing style unless your main goal is to play a game where cryway and SY are not available (i call this game pvp). therefore your argument that SY makes players bad is moot, and even your reasoning is internally inconsistent so as to make such an assertion hypocritical.
2)you should play pvp because it's better and instead of doing urgoz real fast and having the 100 other random people in ur guild thinking PWNZILLA is the coolest thing in guild wars you'll be winning tournaments and having gold capes and if you make a time machine to go back in time you'll even win real money prizes.

p.p.p.s. warriors>assassins

Bobby2 · Mar 23, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

tl;dr version:
I AM WARRIOR
ASSASSIN IS PIG
DO YOU WANT A LACK OF UTILITY?
DO YOU WANT A EASILY DISRUPTED?
ASSASSIN IS PIG DISGUSTING
WARRIOR IS A MURDERER
THAT'S HIS JOB

I agree with you on most parts... but can't let Sin rips pass

- Utility hardly matters in PvE, and Sins have more energy for [you move like a dwarf] - yes even compared to stupid WE templates
- fearsome PvE interrupting where?
- yes, Sins are disgusting, but that's why I love em
- Sins also murder quite skillfully (it's what they were designed to do, [shadow form] is retarded shit that should have never existed)

Side notes
- [critical agility] may be strippable but at least it doesn't slow you down
- Us dagger spammers can haz [save yourselves] too

faraaz · Mar 24, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

i agree that SY can hinder bad players from developing into better players

/winthread.

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